By James “Hollywood” Macecari- Author of the Best Selling Biker Book- New Age of Biking & Brotherhood
Want to thank those who’ve sent in legitimate questions for debate first and foremost. I love a good debate, I also love seeing the opinions of others as well on the subject matter. Today we are taking a look at a question from Shark AKA Dave. He submitted a very interesting question, one that I’m sure will drum up a good debate.
First off, I love the show and have been listening and subscribed for around 2 years. Within the past 3 months myself and 4 guys I call brother now have started a 1 piece patch Riding Club.
There are a few things I’d like to get your perspective on with our club. Two of our founding members are ex Iron Order members. Myself and the other 2 founders are ex members of respected 99% MCs in our area. Myself and one of the ex IO members met with our local Dominant 1% club to show respect and seek our blessing.
Now the ex IO member I brought with is 68 years old and has been riding since 1975. The meeting went well and the Dominant seemed to show us respect as we showed them. One thing that was brought up was the fact that we had 2 ex IO members that were going to stick with us no matter what. So my question is even with a blessing do you feel this is going to limit the trust and communication we receive from local clubs?
The fact that we are a 1 piece patch RC and are only looking to ride, party and help the community do you feel we will receive a lot of flack from clubs because 2 founders are ex IO? We started this RC right by showing Respect and seeking a blessing so I was hoping we would be seen as a new RC no matter who are members used to belong too.
We made it clear LEO or ex LEO will not be allowed to join because they have their own clubs. We don’t plan on hanging around biker bars or starting any problems that’s why we chose an RC. Obviously we will have to keep up communication with the Dominant and hope to get along with all clubs but want nothing to do with the politics. As a new club on the scene we know to expect some flack but as an RC we feel we will be low profile for the most part. So I suppose the main question is about the ex IO members and how much flack that could cause us and since were staying out of politics should we really even care? Thanks Shark
Let’s do what I always do and take it point by point. Thanks Dave for sending in this question, it’s about time I get to one that isn’t bashing on other clubs or protocol in general.
Within the past 3 months myself and 4 guys I call brother have started a 1 piece patch Riding Club.
Congrats on your new venture, as you know I’m the biggest supporter of riding clubs. I believe riding clubs offer an alternative to those who just want to enjoy the traditional ways. Traditional ways meaning riding, partying and sharing a common interest in motorcycles.
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I have to also commend you on going the 1 pc patch route, most riding clubs screw up right away by throwing rockers on, which invites the scrutiny of other clubs. Well done!
Two of our founding members are ex Iron Order members. Myself and the other 2 founders are ex members of respected 99% MCs in our area
The meat of the subject. Two of the founding members of the RC are ex Iron Order Members. From your email, you actually sound a little embarrassed of this fact. My question to you, why be concerned about the fact they are ex-Iron Order? You’re doing a 1pc patch riding club. If this is the case then my opinion is simple, riding clubs are not motorcycle clubs.
If you truly believe them to be your brothers, their past shouldn’t come into play. All that should matter about a riding club is the fact you all love riding motorcycles.
Myself and one of the ex IO members met with our local Dominant 1% club to show respect and seek our blessing.
It’s great that you followed protocol in getting a blessing from the Dominant 1% club. Here’s another question for you, one that will piss a lot of people off. Why? Why did you feel it necessary to go get a blessing for a one piece patch riding club?
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Now I admit, the rules have changed a lot since my time, but here’s what I think you might run into. By getting a blessing for your riding club you now have given your allegiance to that dominant. Why is this an issue? What if you decide to expand or ride into an area where another dominant isn’t on friendly terms with the one you went too for a blessing? The question goes to your next statement in the email.
Obviously we will have to keep up communication with the Dominant and hope to get along with all clubs but want nothing to do with the politics.
You may not want to get into the politics of clubs, but that’s exactly what you did when you went to the dominant. You want to get along with all clubs and I get that, but to be honest that won’t happen now. Your RC will always be seen as one that sides with the dominant you got your blessing from.
One of the main reasons riding clubs exist, at least ones that are truly riding clubs, is to ride and enjoy motorcycling. I’ve argued many times that riding clubs should keep to their intentions when forming. I know this will piss off all those people who think RC’s should fall under motorcycle club protocol, but let’s face it, riding clubs are not motorcycle clubs and thus people shouldn’t have to seek a blessing.
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The internet is a strange monster, meaning people use it to voice their own interpretation of motorcycle club protocol. Most of the people who you see comment on the content on the web are complete nobodies. Actually, they are the pom pom cheerleaders for clubs they’ve never even been around. Yes, I’m talking about supporters. Most of the time you will find a very different situation when it comes to real life and protocol.
One thing that was brought up was the fact that we had 2 ex IO members that were going to stick with us no matter what. So my question is even with a blessing do you feel this is going to limit the trust and communication we receive from local clubs?
Why do you want to build trust and communication from the other local clubs? It actually seems to me that you’re trying to get your foot in the door starting out as an RC. You want to dip your toe into the water without jumping in.
I get people want to party and hang with clubs, but that isn’t the point of an RC. Already, with your statement you’re acting like an MC. Motorcycle clubs have the kinds of worries that you just mentioned, not true riding clubs. If you’ve got two brothers you’re going to back and them you, why worry what others think? After all, you’re just a riding club.
The ex IO member I brought with is 68 years old and has been riding since 1975. The meeting went well and the Dominant seemed to show us respect as we showed them. One thing that was brought up was the fact that we had 2 ex IO members
It looks like you got yourself an old greybeard, one that’s probably been riding longer than those in the dominant that were probably not even born yet. Again, I’ll go back to my thoughts above, what’s it matter what he was if it’s a riding club?
As for the meeting with the dominant and it being brought up. Of course it’s going to be brought up, every single club out there for the most part can’t stand Iron Order. Some with some very good reasons I might add. What you’re also missing in that question, the reason they brought it up. It’s at that very point that you gave up your independence. A riding club doesn’t earn a patch, most of the time they are bought outright. Why should the dominant care if you have an ex Iron Order member? It’s because with that blessing they are expecting you to come to their events and functions. A blessing is not free, there are always terms behind it.
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I’ll be very frank with you because most others won’t. You would’ve been better off without the blessing. You now have established a line of communication, something that will tie you to the dominant. Your statement says it all right here.
We made it clear LEO or ex LEO will not be allowed to join because they have their own clubs. We don’t plan on hanging around biker bars or starting any problems that’s why we chose an RC.
You felt compelled to tell them your exclusions to your riding club. You were compelled because that’s what you think you needed to tell them in order to get their blessing. By the way, I commend you on not having cops, but a real riding club doesn’t care what someone does.
You went even further saying you wouldn’t hang around biker bars. This is a bold face lie! You and I both know that isn’t true. Riding clubs do a lot of poker runs and riding. Are you going to sit here and say you won’t be hanging at a bar for a beer and burger? What you’re saying is you chose an RC because you didn’t want any problems. What you really mean, you’re misusing the term riding club so other motorcycle clubs do not mess with you. You also believe that cutting your balls off by telling the dominant you won’t be seen where most bikers are.
After that meeting I can bet they looked at you like a bunch of weirdos. Worst yet, they probably didn’t take you all that seriously because they knew it was bullshit you wouldn’t be hanging at bars. What they saw was someone trying to play them. I might be wrong, but that’s what I would’ve thought.
Obviously we will have to keep up communication with the Dominant and hope to get along with all clubs but want nothing to do with the politics. As a new club on the scene we know to expect some flack but as an RC we feel we will be low profile for the most part.
Well yeah, now that you’ve come to an agreement it seems, you’re under their umbrella. You don’t have your own identity any longer. Your not wanting to get into politics is out the door. I would argue you’re the ones who opened the door and walked right into the politics.
“As a new club on the scene?” So your saying that you’re a new club, a motorcycle club? A riding club isn’t going to consider itself a part of a motorcycle club scene. You’re already worrying about flak from other clubs. So you’re admitting that you probably know you’ve already lost the independence you were seeking? Again, there isn’t any low profile anymore. I would actually bet within six months to a year of hanging with the clubs, you’re going to be talked into converting over to an mc. That’s how it works most of the time. That’s why if you truly wanted to be a riding club you wouldn’t have put yourselves in the position you’re now.
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When you become a mc you’re also going to have to kick the brothers that were IO to the curb. No dominant is going to all ex io in their circle, at least the ones that I know. Something to remember when that opportunity comes knocking, and it will!
So I suppose the main question is about the ex IO members and how much flack that could cause us and since were staying out of politics should we really even care?
Back to my first statement. What’s it matter what others think? If you’re going to ride as an RC it shouldn’t matter what the hell their past membership was in another group. The flack you’re going to take now is because of the actions you took. Should you care? FUCK NO! If you consider them your brothers then fuck what everyone else thinks. You should actually worry about keeping your independence and keeping to your goal of being an RC.
This is one of the reasons I don’t like getting into protocol. It’s also the reason why people should only go to protocol channels that give a basic overview of protocol. People get all fucking confused with all the opinions out there because there are so many. There are so many interpretations to protocol it might as well be turned into a how to guide at this point. Problem with that, protocol is on the local level, something many people going to these sources don’t get.
Anyways, that’s my two cents. What are your opinions and what advice would you give Dave? Would you tell him they made the right choice for their riding club, or did they put themselves into something that goes directly against the goal they were trying to achieve?